Curse

Yawgmoth · Dec 19, 2009, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Those costumes were added just now they're receiving quite heavy critique. Good. But remember that sadly GW1 has turned into a microtransactions game quite a long time ago, and the new costumes are the least serious offenders of them all! (all they do is show everyone seeing you that you're dumb enough to spend real $$ on some pixels, they don't have any prestige value or anything like that.)

There has been much worse stuff being sold for a long time, and while a little more subtle than the great bulk of free-to-play mmos GW still sells actual advantages for real $$.
Even something as seemingly completely innocent as the character makeovers are much more serious advantage givers than most realize, from saving 100s of hours and millions of gold on characters remade because of stupid looks (many people did that) there is an actual PvP advantage coming from playing the smallest possible character model - many players click to target. It matters for those who would like to PvP with their favorite characters they have spent so much time and resources on, so they don't want to sacrifice another character slot to make another one of the same profession.
And on top of that you can buy them and remake your character in a way that IS possible to recreate on a new character, thus hiding the fact you bought them from the public - exact opposite of the costumes which just shout "look at me I RMT!!"

Lots of other stuff come in the middle, like the BMP offering a significant economy advantage - when you can spawn infinite perfect weapons you never need to buy any weapons (for example 'a channeling staff' to use) expect when you want a very specific skin. Or another thing, the /bonus weapons and fire imp summoner, which ruin PreSearing as much as perma SF is ruining post.

That's ofcourse *nothing* compared to the Biggest Killers of the good old and fair for everyone GW's original business model -- the unlock packs and direct ingame currency sales in the form of free ZKeys for owners of multiple accounts (XTH, thankfully dead).

Even when the unlock packs seem just a lame cheat for bad or lazy players as they grant what can be obtained through normal active gameplay in 2-3 months. Even though no player with a brain ever needs them, you should look at them in a different way - compare 2 players that got new GW accounts, both interested in playing lots of PvP, but one of them refusing to buy unlocks since he knows he can earn them himself. Not only the one who bought his UAX has a good headstart in finding a low-end PvP guild, if both players play for a long time with similar results, by the time one has unlocked everything through gameplay, the Anet-RMT lamer who bought his UAX has made over 2 MILLION GOLD worth of Z-Keys!

You have to keep in mind that GW's microtransactions are far far far worse than the ridic costumes, and that if they're popular there's a high chance GW2 will be designed based upon them entirely.

Daesu · Dec 19, 2009, 03:30 AM // 03:30

In the business world, it is very competitive. Right now, most games like GW require a subscription, so it becomes a competition as to which business model would yield the most profit.

If ANet's profits dont buck up, GW2 may end up like tabula rasa.

Look at Aion, at $15/month, each of its player contributes $180/year. Sure, they add content more often than GW so their cost is probably higher, but so are their earnings. If the GW free-to-play model is a losing business model, then NCSoft may very well dump it.

Jongal · Dec 19, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

That's the scary part. Even tough I think a reasonable size of the community won't be scared away by micro-transaction in GW1, I personally hope they keep them out of GW2. Their original word was that GW2 had a business model similar to GW1, with small expansion instead of campaign (that means no micro). We'll see how close they are to it when it comes out.

I guess if it works well in GW1, we'll see "cosmetic-microtransactions" much sooner in GW2. Sad thing!

Karate Jesus · Dec 19, 2009, 03:49 AM // 03:49

They gave up on producing content and when you don't produce content, then what else are you going to (over)charge for?

They're now the equivalent of a browser-based, 2D RPG. Get used to it.

Aleta · Dec 19, 2009, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongal

I guess if it works well in GW1, we'll see "cosmetic-microtransactions" much sooner in GW2. Sad thing!

I am not being flippant with what I am going to say. Just so that's understood. I truly do not understand why this is a problem. It's the same with the Station Cash Store in EQ2. There is a portion of the community that is always upset about it. They sell potions, furniture, fluff pets for your house or pets to follow you around. I just don't see why anyone cares about it. I've heard the story over and over about the haves and the have nots. It's not game breaking and it's not expensive either.

Apollo Smile · Dec 19, 2009, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleta

I am not being flippant with what I am going to say. Just so that's understood. I truly do not understand why this is a problem. It's the same with the Station Cash Store in EQ2. There is a portion of the community that is always upset about it. They sell potions, furniture, fluff pets for your house or pets to follow you around. I just don't see why anyone cares about it. I've heard the story over and over about the haves and the have nots. It's not game breaking and it's not expensive either.

Indeed. Also World of Warcraft charges for gender/race change and rare miniatures, City of Heroes also has "costume packs" that they sell. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying its alright for ArenaNet to do so just because the "other guys" are doing it, but it certainly makes more sense considering those 3 games have a subcription fee where Guild Wars does not.

Fril Estelin · Dec 19, 2009, 11:27 AM // 11:27

A thought I've posted on Ravious' blog:

It’s actually funny that people should complain about these things in GW: Anet do it because they know that they can afford it financially, as people will pay more than the required development time, while they can’t spend the same resources on free content without jeopardizing their future plans. But the extra money benefits Anet which will do updates that will benefit those that paid … and those that didn’t (like me!). So it’s almost a win-win (buyer gets his art/cosmetic, non-buyer gets something from free updates in the future), if it weren’t for potentially tempting Anet into moving its games into the “cosmetic” direction, rather than core gameplay. But I believe that gameplay is one of their core values and they’ll never, ever relinquish that!

garethporlest18 · Dec 19, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32

They wouldn't be making new content for Guild Wars, in something large like EOTN or SF. You really need to let it go, GW's time is over and it's time for GW 2. Only thing we'll be getting are updates as big as Dhuum was.

Mokeiro · Dec 19, 2009, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

They gave up on producing content and when you don't produce content, then what else are you going to (over)charge for?

They're now the equivalent of a browser-based, 2D RPG. Get used to it.

Guild wars meets Ogame

Anon-e-mouse · Dec 19, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

I for one don't like the direction GW1 business model is taking. Many would say that the micro-transactions available at the moment are just for cosmetic items and therefore optional...

Charging 25% of the cost of a full priced expansion for a really small ingame shiny, is not a Micro-transaction. Please do not call these payments Micro-transaction, as there is NO WAY they can be classed as that.

Trub · Dec 19, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleta

I am not being flippant with what I am going to say. Just so that's understood. I truly do not understand why this is a problem. It's the same with the Station Cash Store in EQ2. There is a portion of the community that is always upset about it. They sell potions, furniture, fluff pets for your house or pets to follow you around. I just don't see why anyone cares about it. I've heard the story over and over about the haves and the have nots. It's not game breaking and it's not expensive either.

^ /win thread.
Thank you Aleta, it is good to see the light of reason here in Guru sometimes.
The costumes are pleasant looking, you retain your armor/runes ect....
I'm getting them both!!
I purchaced the BMP, loved it!
Toon slots...oh yeah!
I didn't need the skill pack, but if it were offered sooner in the game..of course!
These are things that enhance the individuals gaming experience, I like nice looking things in a game, it makes me happy...why would I play a game otherwise?

Anduin · Dec 19, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

^ /win thread.
Thank you Aleta, it is good to see the light of reason here in Guru sometimes.
The costumes are pleasant looking, you retain your armor/runes ect....
I'm getting them both!!
I purchaced the BMP, loved it!
Toon slots...oh yeah!
I didn't need the skill pack, but if it were offered sooner in the game..of course!
These are things that enhance the individuals gaming experience, I like nice looking things in a game, it makes me happy...why would I play a game otherwise?

Someone else expressing the same opinion as you is not "reason".

Try not to be so self-important.

Trub · Dec 19, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anduin

Someone else expressing the same opinion as you is not "reason".

Try not to be so self-important.

Please, do elaborate on this statement.
I am interested to know why this very nice thing being offered by a business is an issue for some players?
All I have seen so far is the cost being thrown around?
If you feel it is something your not willing to invest in (these pretty pixels) then, why the deep discussions against it?

bigtime102 · Dec 19, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

^ /win thread.
Thank you Aleta, it is good to see the light of reason here in Guru sometimes.
The costumes are pleasant looking, you retain your armor/runes ect....
I'm getting them both!!
I purchaced the BMP, loved it!
Toon slots...oh yeah!
I didn't need the skill pack, but if it were offered sooner in the game..of course!
These are things that enhance the individuals gaming experience, I like nice looking things in a game, it makes me happy...why would I play a game otherwise?

And this is why Micro transaction ruin the game. That game being the PVE game thats sole purpose is to collect nice looking things that other dont have. This is a form of competition, therefore BUYING a unique looking item IS buying an game advantage in this context.

The argument isnt wether you like it or not, of course you do, lots of people dont mind competing with others by "buying" thier way to the top, just look at all the gold sellers and buyers. For example no one could craft this costume, theres no other way to get it other than to pay for it. This isnt as harmless as it may appear to be on the surface. This is without a doubt buying an advantage in the game and it has its consequences.

Trub · Dec 19, 2009, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

And this is why Micro transaction ruin the game. That game being the PVE game thats sole purpose is to collect nice looking things that other dont have. This is a form of competition, therefore BUYING a unique looking item IS buying an game advantage in this context.

The argument isnt wether you like it or not, of course you do, lots of people dont mind competing with others by "buying" thier way to the top, just look at all the gold sellers and buyers. For example no one could craft this costume, theres no other way to get it other than to pay for it. This isnt as harmless as it may appear to be on the surface. This is without a doubt buying an advantage in the game and it has its consequences.

Hmmm...I must not be of the same callibur of player as you then.
I buy the costumes to look at, in my own leisure in my guild hall...or being silly in a mission with friends. (usually armorless, but this is better!)
I don't feel the urge to 'compete' with anyone with my 'shinies', why would you?
(They aren't usuable in PvP is my understanding, and that's the only competitive part of GW?)

Daesu · Dec 19, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

And this is why Micro transaction ruin the game. That game being the PVE game thats sole purpose is to collect nice looking things that other dont have. This is a form of competition, therefore BUYING a unique looking item IS buying an game advantage in this context.

The argument isnt wether you like it or not, of course you do, lots of people dont mind competing with others by "buying" thier way to the top, just look at all the gold sellers and buyers. For example no one could craft this costume, theres no other way to get it other than to pay for it. This isnt as harmless as it may appear to be on the surface. This is without a doubt buying an advantage in the game and it has its consequences.

Then would you rather pay a $15/month subscription instead?

ANet's last release was GWEN on Aug 2007. Between then and the time when GW2 will be released is a span of 3+ years. Now stop and think for a while. How do you think they should get by while maintaining their servers, and paying their staff?

At the same, they have to prove to NCSoft that they are still competitive with their no-subscriptions business model.

Kaleban · Dec 19, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Paying $9.99 for two costumes is the equivalent of buying gold from gold-sellers.

Its paying real world money for an in-game cosmetic "advantage" just like paying real money for some guy's Crystalline Sword.

I was under the impression that was against the EULA, and the spirit of GW. Looks like I was wrong. The lure of money is strong, I'd really have liked to be a fly on the wall during the meeting in which the price of two costumes was discussed, I'm pretty sure Satan was present...

Arduin · Dec 19, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Paying $9.99 for two costumes is the equivalent of buying gold from gold-sellers.

Its paying real world money for an in-game cosmetic "advantage" just like paying real money for some guy's Crystalline Sword.

As GW is not about better armor, but about prettier armor, you actually have a point there.

upier · Dec 19, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

1. I prefer to have stuff for free.
2. If obtaining things for free isn't possible, I prefer them offering content that I can purchase in a traditional store.
3. The only thing that interested me to the point of buying it and that wasn't offered in a traditional store were additional character slots. Having just deleted a bunch of guys that I NEVER play, thus gaining a few free slots, there was absolutely no need for me to purchase the additional slots. In a game that is currently so heavily centred around one main guy, those 8 slots that come with the purchase or all 4 games are MORE than sufficient.

Having said that, I really don't mind micro-transactions. Everything that they offered was complete fluff, thus stuff I can live without nicely. Even if they started offering content that wasn't just fluff, that wouldn't matter much. I stopped actively supporting GW with the purchase of Nightfall (or maybe it was the additional char slot?). The only reason why I have GWEN is because I received it as a gift - I had no plans on purchasing it otherwise. Which means if content that provided an advantage was offered in the store - I would look at the game and re-evaluate if playing without this content made sense.
If it wouldn't - I wouldn't buy it.
I'd quit.

Daesu · Dec 19, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

I also did not buy the costumes because they dont offer any real advantage in PvE other than looks. I dont really mind micro-transactions because they tend to be optional anyway.

It is still CHEAPER for a game be funded by lots of optional mini fluffy features that you can buy in the store, than having to pay a subscription.

It is funny that people are ok with the expensive WoW/Aion monthly subscriptions but not ok with the cheaper and optional mini offers in their online store.